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zucan 112 ( +1 | -1 )
Help: To Draw or Not to Draw! Okay, I just played a guy here at the chess club (in fact, we are still here) and I managed to win the game. He lost on time, but the final positon was an obviously lost game for him. However, when we were looking over the game, we realized that a position ocurred 3 times, which means that it should be a draw. So...

What happens here?

The game is part of a ladder chess tournament. We didn't notice the error until after the game was over. We continued to play for another 15 moves or so before his flag finally dropped. Since we noticed the three-fold repition, should the game be reclassified as a draw, or should the win stand?

He brought up another interesting point too... what happens if an illegal move was made at some point in the game and nobody noticed until afterwards when they were going through the game? I guessed that the game result would stand, but he doesn't think so... again, this is a gray area and I have no idea what the official rules say...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Zucan
atrifix 42 ( +1 | -1 )
If your opponent doesn't claim a draw at the precise moment a three-move repitition occurs, the game continues. If your opponent is making the move that would repeat the position 3 times, then instead of making his move, he should inform you what his move is and call an arbiter. If your opponent makes his move and then calls an arbiter, then the claim is invalid.
premium_steve 126 ( +1 | -1 )
something similar to zucan's game... happened in a tournament game i played this past summer. the end of one game was drawn between me and my opponent by three-move repitition. however, we both missed that my opponent actually had a move that would have checkmated me (on the last move of the game).
it was a strange game, particularly strange because the mate was pretty obvious. we both completely missed it though. i wrote that we drew the game on a big scoresheet, but a couple of days later i discover that the score has been changed to a win for my opponent. my opponent must have discovered his winning move and claimed to the TD that he had made it. and that there was no draw, but a win for him instead. we forgot to sign each others' scoresheets at the end of the game, so i didn't really have concrete evidence to say that we actually drew the game. but neither, really, did my opponent have the evidence to prove he had won! ;)
it was a strange situation and many of my friends who also played the tournament thought i should try to get my half point back. i didn't think i would have been in the running for prize money or anything, so i didn't do anything about it.
sometimes i wish i had though - just to clear up the situation as best as i could for future times. it was left kind of unresolved, i guess.
caldazar 42 ( +1 | -1 )
Once a game is over and a result has been agreed upon, the result usually stands regardless of what is discovered or determined following the game; I would imagine the only exception would be in cases where it was later determined that one player cheated by using outside sources or playing aids.

atrifix has already described the procedure for claiming a draw by three-fold repetition.

zucan 91 ( +1 | -1 )
Thank you all... During the meeting last night, we looked throught the FIDE rules and saw where the draw had to be claimed in order for it to stand. We didn't have an arbiter, so that wouldn't have helped, but we are both honorable and that wouldn't have been a problem. Anyways, he agreed that the game would stand as a draw.

An additional side note should be added... if the claim is not made, it is obvious that the player loses his right to claim the draw on the following move. However, if the position comes up again a fourth time, that player once again regains his right to claim the draw by three-fold repition... Same goes each future occurence of the repeated position.

In our case, we just couldn't count! If we had counted right, he would have certainly claimed the draw! :-)

Again, thank for those that helped! :-)

Zucan
drgandalf 7 ( +1 | -1 )
Illegal move must be discovered within 10 further moves. Otherwise, it stands.
silverwolfwsc 28 ( +1 | -1 )
im curious if it must be discovered within 10 moves (im assuming 10 by both sides, or is it 5 by both sides?), what if it happens say 3 moves from the end of the game. Can the outcome of the game then be changed, or does it just stand because the game was agreed by both parties to have ended?

bartlebie 37 ( +1 | -1 )
I think Gandalf is wrong here. An illegal move that is discovered during the game always leads to the reinstatement of the position before the illegal move appeared. The clocks too have to be set back, that is not always easy. When the game is over (i.e. checkmate, resign, draw agreement, draw by repetition or 50 moves or timeout), the result counts. If the game is over the result stands.
More: Chess
zucan 20 ( +1 | -1 )
And further... I believe bartlebie is right, from what I read in the rules... and if the game could not be put back to a valid position for whatever reason, the game is anulled and must be started over.

Zucan
bartlebie 35 ( +1 | -1 )
Something more to the threefold repetition. First of all it's not a threefold repetition of moves but of a position. To be more precise:
Chessmen on the same squares (it is not important if for example the same knight is on the same square of if two knights have changed their position).
The same player to move in every occurence of the position.
The same moves must be playable in every occurence (0-0, 0-0-0, taking a pawn e.p.).